Driving Priority rules in Netherlands - real case

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David_2002
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Driving Priority rules in Netherlands - real case

Ongelezen bericht door David_2002 »

Hi,

Simple questions who know well the Dutch driving rules as a judging police.

FIRST part

In Following image, there are only 2 cars in crossroad. They are facing each other in a cross road and both cars want to turn to the same street/direction.
  • Both cars are normal ones (not priority car)
    Traffic light is green for both at the same time.
    Red car (red path) has smaller driving distance during turning comparing to Green car (green path), as seen in the photo.
    There is well shark's teeth for both cars, in the positions shown in the photo.
Afbeelding

Question 1. Between green & Red cars; Which one has higher priority for turning to the street/direction (if green car is at position B and red car is at position A) ?

Question 2. Between green & Red cars; Which one has higher priority for turning to the street/direction (if green car is at position C and red car is at position A) ?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

SECOND part

In Following image, there are only 2 cars in crossroad. They are facing each other, one of them going straight, and the other one turning to left.
  • Both cars are normal ones (not priority car)
    Traffic light is green for both at the same time.
    Red car (red path) goes straight, and Green car (green path) turns to left, as seen in the photo.
    There is well shark's teeth for both cars, in the positions shown in the photo.
Afbeelding

Question 3. Between green & Red cars; Which one has higher priority for turning to the street/direction (if green car is at position B and red car is at position A) ?

Question 4. Between green & Red cars; Which one has higher priority for turning to the street/direction (if green car is at position C and red car is at position A) ?


Thank you.
Regards,
David;
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Re: Driving Priority rules in Netherlands - real case

Ongelezen bericht door DiNozzo »

Hello David,

In the first case, the red car has the right of way because it makes the short turn. This priority will nog change if the green car has already arrived at point B. It should still give priority to the red car.

The same goes for the second example. Traffic going straight on the same road has priority. In this case, the green car must wait until the red car has passed. Just like the other case, it doesn't matter where the green car is at that moment

If you have any questions, feel free to ask them.
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Pim
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Re: Driving Priority rules in Netherlands - real case

Ongelezen bericht door Pim »

The car that has the shortest curve goes first and before the car that has the wider curve. So red has priority above green

The position on the road or in the curve doesn't matter. And also: after an accident this isn't reproducable. So: shorter curve first. Period.

Shark teeth mean:
Drivers who are coming from beyond the shark theet have to give way to drivers on the intersecting road.
Drivers do not include pedestrians!

But both red and green did not came from the intersecting road so the shark teeth have no mening here.

Second part:
Drivers one equal roads, who take a curve/corner have to give way to drivers (and pedestrians) who keep driving (or walking) in a straight direction on that same road.
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David_2002
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Re: Driving Priority rules in Netherlands - real case

Ongelezen bericht door David_2002 »

Hi,

Thank you @DiNozzo and @Pim for the time and answer.

What I understood from your answers is that :
Shark teeth down prioritize a car at an intersection (whatever the car goes straight or turns), if the other car is previously & already in the intersecting street.

Meaning that
  • if other car is coming from front street, then shark teeth has no influence; And priority is defined based on smallest turn.
    but
    if other car is coming from intersecting street, then shark teeth has WELL influence; And priority is defined based on shark teeth. (It is not defined from smallest turn).
I hope I am right.
Thank you.

Regards and best wishes;
David;
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Re: Driving Priority rules in Netherlands - real case

Ongelezen bericht door Pim »

Yes that is right.
There are two different things.

Shark teeth are only for the drivers who are coming from behind of the shark teeth, and have them in front of them. The shark teeth force that driver to let other drivers who are driving on the intersecting road to go first.

Now that picture 1 shows that red and green are on the same road and both have shark teeth, and red or green are not being the intersecting road, and there are no other drivers on the intersecting road, the shark theet have no function for red or green. So skip the shark teeth and act if the wheren't there (in case of red versus green or green versus red).

Take notice that the position of any car at the junction or crossing doesn't count when speaking about shark teeth.

Just the fact that a car stopped at a intersection and therefore is positioned at the intersecting road is not of a matter.

The road or street where a driver was coming from is officially what counts.

And if you don't know where a car at the junction was coming from, because it is already at the crossing, I suggest the you give way and let him move before driving onto the intersection.
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Re: Driving Priority rules in Netherlands - real case

Ongelezen bericht door Pim »

Take notice:

You speak about CARS.
Shark teeth is not (only) about CARS.
It is about DRIVERS. Everthing with a steer.

And:
Beside the rules about shark teeth...

Taking a turn at an intersection, you not only have to let DRIVERS in the smallest turn go first but also let PEDESTRIANS who stay on the same street where you came from, and who tou might cross.

So "drivers" means not only cars but e.g. motorcycles, bikes, etc
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David_2002
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Re: Driving Priority rules in Netherlands - real case

Ongelezen bericht door David_2002 »

Thank you Pim for extra info.

If the administrator permits, I keep two more similar questions under same topic (if not I will open another thread).
Let me start with first one please.

May I know what is your expert view on following scenario?
  • same normal non-priority motorcycle (yellow plate)
    Without Stop light
    Without shark's teeth
Afbeelding

Does the priority follow only RIGHT hand rule ? (which gives following priority)
(Highest priority) Blue & Black > Yellow & Orange & Pink > Green & Red & Brown (Lowest priority)

Or the priority follows RIGHT hand rule + shorter turning curve ? (which gives following priority)
(Highest priority) Blue & Red & Orange > Black > Yellow & Pink > Green & Brown (Lowest priority)

With thanks in advance.
Regards,
David;
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Re: Driving Priority rules in Netherlands - real case

Ongelezen bericht door Skipperje »

Blue and red at the same time. After this black is allowed. Then orange, yellow and pink are allowed. Finally, green and brown are allowed. In practice, green or brown may use opportunity precedence.

Piet
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David_2002
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Re: Driving Priority rules in Netherlands - real case

Ongelezen bericht door David_2002 »

Thanks Piet (Skipperje),

OK, then when there is no traffic sign or ground marking; both Right Hand Rule + shorter turning curve should be considered.

I intentionally mentioned motorcycle (not Car), because we can have two motorcycle standing beside eachother, so there is no "opportunity precedence" :)

I was thinking that Orange has same priority as Blue & Red; Because it doesn't cross the way of blue & Red; So it can go at the same time with Blue & Red.
But I understood from your answer that, evenif the Orange has no conflict (crossing path) with Blue & Red; It should wait - respecting right hand priority - that Black goes, then Orange can go.

Thank you.
Regards,
David;
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David_2002
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Re: Driving Priority rules in Netherlands - real case

Ongelezen bericht door David_2002 »

And my last (third) query as previous mentioned :

It is about Bike (and snorscooters/snorfiets) with Red lane. In this photo :
  • Without stop light
  • without shark teeth
  • without traffic sign
Each of the two bike lanes (Red path) in the street is well double direction. Meaning there is no traffic sign on none of them, mentioning that it is one way only.

If a bike or "blue plate snorscooter" is coming from the intersecting street (the street which doesn't have Bike lane); And he/she wants to turn right;
Is he/she allowed to turn right in any of green arrow or red arrow ?
  • Green arrow is surely OK.
    Red arrow should be OK too, because the second Red path doesn't have an entrace_forbidden sign, but the bike/snorscooter should go through all crossroad for turning to right ! Little strange and dangerous.
Afbeelding

I just wanted to have your expert view about such situation.

Thank you in advance.
Regards,
David;
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Re: Driving Priority rules in Netherlands - real case

Ongelezen bericht door Pim »

From a static picture it's hard to say:
This color in favor of that color.

If one reacts a bit later than the other or one has to drive 10 meters towards the intersection....
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David_2002
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Re: Driving Priority rules in Netherlands - real case

Ongelezen bericht door David_2002 »

Hi Pim,

Indeed this is not priority query.
We can simplify and say, there is no other car or bike in intersection (if not, priority rules should apply).

Assume a bike (or snorscooter with blue plate) is there. If the bike wants to turn right, is the bike allowed to turn right as it is shown with Red path ?

Green path is 100% allowed. And logically Red path should be (I see people do it) but I thought ask a real expert.
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Re: Driving Priority rules in Netherlands - real case

Ongelezen bericht door Skipperje »

David_2002 schreef: 27 jan 2023, 15:11 Each of the two bike lanes (Red path) in the street is well double direction. Meaning there is no traffic sign on none of them, mentioning that it is one way only.
If there is no sign, it is not double direction. Then you must stay on the right as much as possible and you are therefore only allowed on the cycle path on the right side. If it is intended for double direction, there will be a traffic sign G11 (cycle path) on the cycle path at the left side and there will also, usually, be an axis line.

Piet
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